Comments on: A Rambling Report (and Go Vote!) http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/ the couch is occupied... meow! Wed, 08 Sep 2010 15:19:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Davor http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2589 Davor Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:40:02 +0000 http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/#comment-2589 Dear Dr., I disagree that the value of the stake can not be assessed. The company owning 70 % of Ultra is worth about 70% of the balance shit of Ultra +-? It is not the market value but it is something you can use in the discussion. I agree that legally everything is OK (when the gain of the share was shown to the tax authorities). I even agree that in case this would be a case where Zmago would be the main actor in, would be not worth to discuss. But this is Zares the party which will make the politics in a different way. So do it! Dear Dr., I disagree that the value of the stake can not be assessed. The company owning 70 % of Ultra is worth about 70% of the balance shit of Ultra +-? It is not the market value but it is something you can use in the discussion.
I agree that legally everything is OK (when the gain of the share was shown to the tax authorities). I even agree that in case this would be a case where Zmago would be the main actor in, would be not worth to discuss.
But this is Zares the party which will make the politics in a different way. So do it!

]]> By: dr.filomena http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2588 dr.filomena Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:02:47 +0000 http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/#comment-2588 @Davor: I do agree that GG made a colossal error in not sharing with the public that he had gained a stake in the company and there is no way to defend that error of judgement. He should have known that information such as this, especially since he - appropriately - notified the anti-corruption committee of his stake, would leak. In the most opportune moment. Which apparently for some is right now. That aside, let us take a look at the offence. The guy worked on the management team of a very successful private firm. His salary was just over a half of what I currently earn as a bureaucrat. He was rewarded for the successful work not in money but in a stake. This type of a scheme is very customary in the world of business as it encourages managers to work for their companies' success with even more dedication. The question is whether should he have sold the stake when he decided to get into politics. So, there he is, with a stake in a company whose value nobody actually knows or can assess. Finance magazine made up a catchy figure of one million euros for obvious reasons. He declared the stake with the appropriate body. The profits from the company were not being paid out to owners, but reinvested into the high-tech company's research in development to ensure it kept its competitive edge. What he did not do is tell the public that he owned the stake. Is that truly immoral? His stake in the company is so small that under Slovene legislation, the company could quite legally do business with the State. His sin boils down to one thing: he disclosed all of his property to the competent state authorities, but did not disclose part of his assets to the public. This is something that he is not obliged to do, but people would have loved to have known. Hang him, he's a bastard! @Davor: I do agree that GG made a colossal error in not sharing with the public that he had gained a stake in the company and there is no way to defend that error of judgement. He should have known that information such as this, especially since he – appropriately – notified the anti-corruption committee of his stake, would leak. In the most opportune moment. Which apparently for some is right now.

That aside, let us take a look at the offence. The guy worked on the management team of a very successful private firm. His salary was just over a half of what I currently earn as a bureaucrat. He was rewarded for the successful work not in money but in a stake. This type of a scheme is very customary in the world of business as it encourages managers to work for their companies’ success with even more dedication. The question is whether should he have sold the stake when he decided to get into politics.

So, there he is, with a stake in a company whose value nobody actually knows or can assess. Finance magazine made up a catchy figure of one million euros for obvious reasons. He declared the stake with the appropriate body. The profits from the company were not being paid out to owners, but reinvested into the high-tech company’s research in development to ensure it kept its competitive edge. What he did not do is tell the public that he owned the stake. Is that truly immoral? His stake in the company is so small that under Slovene legislation, the company could quite legally do business with the State. His sin boils down to one thing: he disclosed all of his property to the competent state authorities, but did not disclose part of his assets to the public. This is something that he is not obliged to do, but people would have loved to have known. Hang him, he’s a bastard!

]]> By: Davor http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2587 Davor Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:04:57 +0000 http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/#comment-2587 I voted differently because the party structure changed by each middle to left party in these years. E.g. I didn't wont to vote for Rop, now he is in an other party. As I already commented at Had's: GG and Zares made the expectations so very high and now they have to stick to them. I don't believe in media campaign being the problem. When GG would not have lied, there would be no possibility for such a media campaign. Not telling the thought to the voters on what ever ground is for the politics Zares makes not acceptable. Is Lahovnik going to abdicate because of GG as he did in the case of Veselinovič? The high standards Zares made by themselves now implicate that GG should take his hat and go back to Ultra where he belongs. And there is no need for braking any rule or law, just to be as moral as they want others to be. The media conference by Ultra on the other hand gave a strange information: the share was given to GG and he did not bought it. Did he at that time report to the tax authorities the gain of about 1 mio. € and did he pay the taxes? It would be interesting to know this. We can not compare GG with Zmago or Silvio since there voters know what to expect from them. Once again, GG wanted to be different. GG not abdicating will make a huge damage to Zares, and to the left parties. So it is not today or next week, IT IS TODAY! I voted differently because the party structure changed by each middle to left party in these years. E.g. I didn’t wont to vote for Rop, now he is in an other party.
As I already commented at Had’s:
GG and Zares made the expectations so very high and now they have to stick to them.
I don’t believe in media campaign being the problem. When GG would not have lied, there would be no possibility for such a media campaign. Not telling the thought to the voters on what ever ground is for the politics Zares makes not acceptable. Is Lahovnik going to abdicate because of GG as he did in the case of Veselinovič? The high standards Zares made by themselves now implicate that GG should take his hat and go back to Ultra where he belongs. And there is no need for braking any rule or law, just to be as moral as they want others to be.
The media conference by Ultra on the other hand gave a strange information: the share was given to GG and he did not bought it. Did he at that time report to the tax authorities the gain of about 1 mio. € and did he pay the taxes? It would be interesting to know this.
We can not compare GG with Zmago or Silvio since there voters know what to expect from them. Once again, GG wanted to be different.
GG not abdicating will make a huge damage to Zares, and to the left parties. So it is not today or next week, IT IS TODAY!

]]> By: dr.filomena http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2586 dr.filomena Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:59:42 +0000 http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/#comment-2586 @Davor: Funny coincidence. I always voted for the same party in the past and have voted differently this time around. I tend not to make my decisions on who to vote for on the spur of the moment and based on the latest scandal that is bound to be launched shortly before election day. I must say I am amused by the ongoing media campaign that started by denying the right to an answer to allegations and continues by drawing sensationalist parallels between legally owning a share of a private company and the stealing of public funds committed by British MPs. Sad, how easily people fall for it. I'll be in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_West,_Florida" rel="nofollow">Key West</a> on Sunday so if you're there, let's meet on Duval street ;) @Davor: Funny coincidence. I always voted for the same party in the past and have voted differently this time around. I tend not to make my decisions on who to vote for on the spur of the moment and based on the latest scandal that is bound to be launched shortly before election day. I must say I am amused by the ongoing media campaign that started by denying the right to an answer to allegations and continues by drawing sensationalist parallels between legally owning a share of a private company and the stealing of public funds committed by British MPs. Sad, how easily people fall for it.

I’ll be in Key West on Sunday so if you’re there, let’s meet on Duval street ;)

]]> By: Davor http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2585 Davor Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:32:24 +0000 http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/#comment-2585 It looks like that I'm going to vote for the first time in my life on to consecutive elections the same party. I have always voted from center to the left. GG made it even easier to me to make the decision. See you on Sunday. :) It looks like that I’m going to vote for the first time in my life on to consecutive elections the same party. I have always voted from center to the left. GG made it even easier to me to make the decision. See you on Sunday. :)

]]> By: Informed Decisions | SLEEPING WITH PENGOVSKY http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2582 Informed Decisions | SLEEPING WITH PENGOVSKY Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:43:05 +0000 http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/#comment-2582 [...] In case you haven’t noticed, the good doctor is back with yet another excellent post (apparently, the cats are fine). In a debate with Adriaan both [...] [...] In case you haven’t noticed, the good doctor is back with yet another excellent post (apparently, the cats are fine). In a debate with Adriaan both [...]

]]> By: Adriaan http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2581 Adriaan Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:59:36 +0000 http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/#comment-2581 @Dr Fil: I couldn't agree more, particularly the sentence about making an informed decision. That said, shouldn't the will of the people, however it was arrived at and whatever it originally was, been accepted by the political elite? In this case there is a strong sense that the original result didn't suit them and therefore shouldn't be accepted. For a country spawned from a Nationalist uprising against a "Foreign power" this probably has great resonance. I don't condone such posters but I'm not surprised they were used. It would of course help if the Treaty in question were not worded in such a bureaucratic, impenetrable form. It hardly encourages the man or woman in the street to investigate its intentions, which of course, given that the Irish are the only people to have actually been given a referendum on it (necessary due to the terms of their own constitution) might be the deliberate. Or am I being cynical? It wouldn't be the first time! Have a lovely holiday. Speak soon. . @Dr Fil: I couldn’t agree more, particularly the sentence about making an informed decision.

That said, shouldn’t the will of the people, however it was arrived at and whatever it originally was, been accepted by the political elite? In this case there is a strong sense that the original result didn’t suit them and therefore shouldn’t be accepted. For a country spawned from a Nationalist uprising against a “Foreign power” this probably has great resonance. I don’t condone such posters but I’m not surprised they were used.

It would of course help if the Treaty in question were not worded in such a bureaucratic, impenetrable form. It hardly encourages the man or woman in the street to investigate its intentions, which of course, given that the Irish are the only people to have actually been given a referendum on it (necessary due to the terms of their own constitution) might be the deliberate.

Or am I being cynical? It wouldn’t be the first time!

Have a lovely holiday. Speak soon.

.

]]> By: dr. filomena http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2580 dr. filomena Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:00:36 +0000 http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/#comment-2580 @Adriaan: Tone is difficult to convey in writing. As I said, I do not approve of people being "scared into" supporting the treaty. But seeing some of the posters against the treaty was sickening. Images of iconic figures from nearly a hundred years ago in blood, screaming: "is this what we gave our lives for" (cheap nationalist propaganda in my book). Let's hear it for the arguments! How many of the people casting their votes have read at least part of the text of the treaty, how many bothered to get informed on what the treaty chances and what an impact it will have on their lives if it is adopted - and indeed, if it is not. This is what counts. Making an informed decision one way or the other, not just acting as sheep - one way or the other. @Adriaan: Tone is difficult to convey in writing. As I said, I do not approve of people being “scared into” supporting the treaty. But seeing some of the posters against the treaty was sickening. Images of iconic figures from nearly a hundred years ago in blood, screaming: “is this what we gave our lives for” (cheap nationalist propaganda in my book). Let’s hear it for the arguments! How many of the people casting their votes have read at least part of the text of the treaty, how many bothered to get informed on what the treaty chances and what an impact it will have on their lives if it is adopted – and indeed, if it is not. This is what counts. Making an informed decision one way or the other, not just acting as sheep – one way or the other.

]]> By: Adriaan http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2578 Adriaan Tue, 02 Jun 2009 12:42:38 +0000 http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/#comment-2578 @Dr. Fil: I see from the tone of your answer that we may be approaching the subject from slightly different positions! What does occur to me is that, if Ireland votes in favour of Lisbon it is more likely to be because of a perceived safety from being inside "the big tent" during these troubled times rather than any great desire to embrace the direction the treaty proposes. That said, the Irish have a habit of surprising, especially when it's least expected. The question of whether the counter arguments amount to "cheap nationalist propaganda" can wait for another time. @Dr. Fil: I see from the tone of your answer that we may be approaching the subject from slightly different positions! What does occur to me is that, if Ireland votes in favour of Lisbon it is more likely to be because of a perceived safety from being inside “the big tent” during these troubled times rather than any great desire to embrace the direction the treaty proposes.

That said, the Irish have a habit of surprising, especially when it’s least expected.

The question of whether the counter arguments amount to “cheap nationalist propaganda” can wait for another time.

]]> By: dr. filomena http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2576 dr. filomena Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:18:15 +0000 http://www.drfilomena.com/2009/06/a-rambling-report-and-go-vote/#comment-2576 @Mr. P: Quite horrifying, isn't it. @Adriaan: I was in Ireland a couple of months ago and while nothing is a given, it seems that this time around the people are becoming better informed before placing their votes and may possibly be more difficult to mislead with cheap nationalist propaganda. I don't approve of "scaring them into" voting in favour by threatening with the Iceland case, but that does have an impact as well. @David: Welcome again. I do wonder what your take is on the matter as you do have quite some distance to view it from. Care to share? @Mr. P: Quite horrifying, isn’t it.

@Adriaan: I was in Ireland a couple of months ago and while nothing is a given, it seems that this time around the people are becoming better informed before placing their votes and may possibly be more difficult to mislead with cheap nationalist propaganda. I don’t approve of “scaring them into” voting in favour by threatening with the Iceland case, but that does have an impact as well.

@David: Welcome again. I do wonder what your take is on the matter as you do have quite some distance to view it from. Care to share?

]]>